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[Music]

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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptic's own podcast

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episode number 715

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for the 19th of june

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2022 richard saunders here coming to you

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from

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bend

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skeptoid headquarters it's great to

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catch up with brian dunning and family

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haven't seen them for a number of years

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largely owing to covert and speaking of

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brian dunning we're going to kick off

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today's show with an interview with

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brian

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and his big foot

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yes brian dunning is the only person i

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know

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who has a giant

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dare i say a life-size scale model of

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bigfoot in his front yard

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it's quite something we're going to chat

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to brian about his big foot about the

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skeptoid podcast a long-running skeptoid

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podcast and his recent documentary

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science friction

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following that it's the recent

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australian skeptics newsletter from tim

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mendum

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read by yours truly what has caught the

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skeptical eye of the skeptics this week

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and speaking of tim mendom that's

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followed up by the book of tim with tim

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mendum

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where i dropped by the skeptics the

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australian skeptics headquarters and

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chat to tim about the latest issue of

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that fine publication

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the skeptic

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of course the journal from australian

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skeptics what can readers look forward

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to this

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quarter

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then to round off the show a dive once

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more into those trove archives although

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this week i think we're heading to the

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united states and we're going to be

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looking for references to

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psychic

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scams

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well that's enough for me at the moment

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it's time for me to run downstairs

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because i'm recording

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i'm actually recording from the very

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studio that brian dunning records his

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skeptoid episodes so yes i do need to

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run downstairs and look for some

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pancakes

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oh i wonder if they have any japanese

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pancakes here i'll have to ask brian

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maybe not

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japanese pancakes folks if you haven't

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tried those they are a particular

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favorite of mine yum yum yum hmm while i

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do that i might have to have oregon

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pancakes while i do that i hope you

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enjoy

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[Music]

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folks i often complain about when i'm

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recording the skeptic zone in my own

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studio

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but

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bloody planes interfere now i've got a

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plane flying over skeptoid headquarters

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brian is it the cia the fbi who is it

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probably you know there's nev there's

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never ever planes here except when you

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try to record something

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tell me about it

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we're uh we're in central oregon is this

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central oregon yeah this is the high

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desert isn't it yeah yeah it's beautiful

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it's uh apparently it's summertime but

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it's quite cool which suits me very well

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there's

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is very nice and we're walking along

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uh the

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roadway here the gravel path leading up

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to skeptoid headquarters

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and we've come to

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a giant bigfoot i kid you not here it is

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how tall is that brian

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it's supposed to be ten and a half feet

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tall but i don't think it's quite that

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tight um

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i mean that's the

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i i'm touching seven foot ten here where

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i'm

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right yeah i don't think so i mean it's

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on a little pedestal but nevertheless

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what an imposing creature it is it's

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it's it's quite remarkable and you were

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even interviewed on local tv news about

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it or something like that well i was

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trying to get some publicity for the the

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chainsaw artist who made it and then he

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turned out to be shy and he didn't want

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to show up so it was just me saying hey

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look i have a bigfoot and he's like oh

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like half the other people in central

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work

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so to describe it it's the classic

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bigfoot

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ape human

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shape uh it's

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hello you've got a little

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yeah crack there that needs some

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fixing the first few years it's going to

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crack and you uh you just it needs uh

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annual maintenance where you cover the

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whole thing with uh linseed oil yeah and

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when cracks do appear like that

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that's fine you just spray oil in them

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and you let them do what they want to do

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and even you know eventually it comes to

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some sort of a equilibrium if you want

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to see this creature for yourself folks

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just go to

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uh the facebook

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page for the skeptic zone and look for

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episode 715

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715 and you'll see a photograph of brian

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dunning

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and his big foot and you're telling me

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i'm just looking at its eyes but they

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were pecked out by birds or something

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crazy they were

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he's he's he's a

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painted dark brown which uh actually it

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looks much better after a few years

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because the linseed oil and the paint

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they sort of

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form this crust and it looks just kind

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of like a really cool old vintage thing

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but for now he looks like painted wood

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yes which isn't quite as cool but uh

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since his eyes

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were packed right in the center by

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woodpeckers

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it gave him like these big bright

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glowing pupils

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which was kind of freaky looking

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no it's

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marvelous addition to the skeptoid

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headquarters it really it's very

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impressive when i come around

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to the other side it's very chunky isn't

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it it's it's a big creature yes yes

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because the idea was to make it big and

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imposing and it's all made out of one

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one piece of wood one one log yeah this

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is from a piece of log that was

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from the fires we had here in central

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oregon about two years ago that were so

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incredibly destructive and uh there was

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just you know countless big logs

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available

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so i got this enormous log for a hundred

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bucks which is

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a lot less than it would normally cost

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yeah yeah well he's done a great job i

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mean

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it it's it really is impressive oh i see

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he's put um

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bob does that say it mosquito bob

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mosquito oh yes it's a picture of a

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mosquito and then the word bob 2021 yep

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yep

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fantastic fantastic so apart from i mean

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this is the most important thing here of

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course but we could also talk about the

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secondary thing you do other than

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putting big feets in your yard

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skeptoid now you must be celebrating

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quite a number of years of skeptoid by

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now yeah this is year 16.

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16 yes i'm only a couple of years behind

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you i think yeah yeah you're right up

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there yeah it shows yes thank you yes

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and um

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uh what can fans look forward to some of

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the topics coming up in the next few

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weeks what you've got lined up can you

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even remember don't even ask me that

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because i haven't i never have any idea

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if you ask me what episode i'm working

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on i honestly don't know it's really

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weird one after the other right yeah i

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can't i can't even tell you

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cool

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undoubtedly i did enjoy the one recently

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about the shining and skeptoid listeners

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will know what i'm talking about because

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it only went to air recently because you

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made a lot of really good points in that

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i think if you could remember it yeah

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i do remember specific episodes yeah

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that yeah that one was fun it was a

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about uh the the supposedly the ghosts

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at the stanley hotel in colorado

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which is best known for the shining even

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though the shining was not filmed there

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but the good points you make in it in

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that episode is

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you know people have all sorts of

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stories it's like wow that's great

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ultimately so what

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yeah

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it was it's just one of those things was

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just random ghost stories that people

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just make up

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you know and in the case of this

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particular hotel those ghost stories

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they didn't even exist until

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the hotel became popular because of the

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shining movie so these are they're not

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even old ghost stories like they pretend

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to be and there's just there's just so

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many stupid made-up ghost stories that

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have

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you know obviously no evidence but

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they're not even good anecdotes so it's

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like what is there to talk about on

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something like that and then

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you'll get explain that skeptic

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is right right yes i heard about a guy

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who xyz ufo flying dogs ghosts here

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explain that skeptic you can't can you

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nope turns out the paranormal is true

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after all it must be

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and

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the other thing of course which is um

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forefront of your mind at the moment has

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been for some years is science friction

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yes science friction which we you and i

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have discussed for the last

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three or four years on and off as it as

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it was in the process of coming together

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but it's and i interviewed you on this

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very show about a month or two back

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about it now it's been out for some time

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what's the general feeling yeah it's

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been out for two months it's on uh

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it's doing super good in film festivals

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which is awesome

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it's kind of having a sort of a slow

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burn gradual release instead of one big

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release all at once it's it's a creeping

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out onto streaming services one by one

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it's on

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amazon prime 2b in most countries and

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it's on vimeo on demand in every country

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right so everyone can see it on vimeo

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you know rent or buy it download

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whatever

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and yeah so i'm pretty stoked about some

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of the film festivals coming up a little

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bit later this year actually so

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um it

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is way too long getting out and way too

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long getting launched but at least at

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least it's done and it's available for

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everyone to enjoy now i've i saw it i

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the f i mean i've seen various rough

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cuts but i saw the final one on to be

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yeah yeah because toby is very easily

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accessible in australia

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yeah although i keep hearing some people

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say they still can't find it i have no

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00:10:32,949 --> 00:10:31,040
idea

282
00:10:34,470 --> 00:10:32,959
well it well if

283
00:10:35,750 --> 00:10:34,480
if they read the latest issue of the

284
00:10:39,829 --> 00:10:35,760
skeptic the journal from australian

285
00:10:42,150 --> 00:10:39,839
skeptics is a handy url yes indeed

286
00:10:44,389 --> 00:10:42,160
but how does one go about putting

287
00:10:45,670 --> 00:10:44,399
documentaries into film festivals is

288
00:10:47,910 --> 00:10:45,680
that a whole thing

289
00:10:50,389 --> 00:10:47,920
no that's pretty easy to do i mean the

290
00:10:52,870 --> 00:10:50,399
the really good festivals you know the

291
00:10:54,949 --> 00:10:52,880
significant ones like khan and sundance

292
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and south by southwest those are all

293
00:10:58,630 --> 00:10:56,720
invitation only you can't you can't just

294
00:11:00,949 --> 00:10:58,640
put a movie into those you can't just

295
00:11:02,870 --> 00:11:00,959
apply or submit some of them have you

296
00:11:04,150 --> 00:11:02,880
know ways that you can apply but the

297
00:11:05,430 --> 00:11:04,160
reality is nobody's going to look at

298
00:11:07,269 --> 00:11:05,440
those unless you're

299
00:11:09,030 --> 00:11:07,279
you know a major filmmaker there's some

300
00:11:10,870 --> 00:11:09,040
big star attached to the film and this

301
00:11:13,750 --> 00:11:10,880
is not that kind of a film so for

302
00:11:15,269 --> 00:11:13,760
regular film festivals um you know of

303
00:11:16,630 --> 00:11:15,279
which there are hundreds and hundreds

304
00:11:18,949 --> 00:11:16,640
all around the world

305
00:11:21,269 --> 00:11:18,959
there are a couple of websites most

306
00:11:22,230 --> 00:11:21,279
noticeably uh film freeway that where

307
00:11:23,829 --> 00:11:22,240
you can just

308
00:11:25,590 --> 00:11:23,839
apply to all of the relevant you can

309
00:11:27,670 --> 00:11:25,600
search and find film festivals that are

310
00:11:29,110 --> 00:11:27,680
relevant to your film and you can apply

311
00:11:30,790 --> 00:11:29,120
to them all and you it's just like

312
00:11:32,230 --> 00:11:30,800
filling out a shopping cart on amazon

313
00:11:34,150 --> 00:11:32,240
you know check all the boxes and then

314
00:11:35,430 --> 00:11:34,160
check out and you've got to pay a whole

315
00:11:37,670 --> 00:11:35,440
bunch of uh

316
00:11:40,310 --> 00:11:37,680
um entry fees for all the festivals

317
00:11:42,790 --> 00:11:40,320
right that makes sense yeah we also did

318
00:11:44,550 --> 00:11:42,800
quite a bit of advertising

319
00:11:45,670 --> 00:11:44,560
to festivals and so we got a lot of

320
00:11:47,350 --> 00:11:45,680
festivals

321
00:11:49,910 --> 00:11:47,360
uh who saw our trailer and said oh

322
00:11:52,310 --> 00:11:49,920
that's actually better than 99 of the

323
00:11:54,150 --> 00:11:52,320
crap that people send us

324
00:11:56,790 --> 00:11:54,160
so we got into a lot of festivals for

325
00:11:58,069 --> 00:11:56,800
for free for just uh with an invited

326
00:12:01,509 --> 00:11:58,079
invitation

327
00:12:02,949 --> 00:12:01,519
i know a particular kind of interesting

328
00:12:03,750 --> 00:12:02,959
and i'm the one who's jet lagged and

329
00:12:08,310 --> 00:12:03,760
you're

330
00:12:11,990 --> 00:12:08,320
that it i've just been reminded at the

331
00:12:13,590 --> 00:12:12,000
time that your your documentary

332
00:12:15,829 --> 00:12:13,600
here be dragons they'd be dragons heavy

333
00:12:17,509 --> 00:12:15,839
dragons yeah hereby dragons and my

334
00:12:19,509 --> 00:12:17,519
documentary the mighty meter mustard

335
00:12:21,910 --> 00:12:19,519
water defining test

336
00:12:23,829 --> 00:12:21,920
was shown at the same festival which was

337
00:12:24,790 --> 00:12:23,839
the one in the czech republic many years

338
00:12:26,870 --> 00:12:24,800
ago

339
00:12:29,110 --> 00:12:26,880
this is the olimote scientific film

340
00:12:30,629 --> 00:12:29,120
festival now the story is you were

341
00:12:33,269 --> 00:12:30,639
invited you couldn't make it and you

342
00:12:34,150 --> 00:12:33,279
recommended me i and they invited me

343
00:12:35,910 --> 00:12:34,160
there

344
00:12:39,269 --> 00:12:35,920
and then i introduced your movie which

345
00:12:42,710 --> 00:12:39,279
was god what year was that oh

346
00:12:44,370 --> 00:12:42,720
at least 10 years ago yeah wow

347
00:12:46,230 --> 00:12:44,380
i have better movies these days

348
00:12:47,350 --> 00:12:46,240
[Laughter]

349
00:12:48,949 --> 00:12:47,360
well there you are folks there's the

350
00:12:50,790 --> 00:12:48,959
clue if you don't um

351
00:12:52,870 --> 00:12:50,800
well you don't need another clue really

352
00:12:55,030 --> 00:12:52,880
it's it's a really enjoyable documentary

353
00:12:56,949 --> 00:12:55,040
it's fascinating you you end up

354
00:12:58,389 --> 00:12:56,959
applauding then screaming at the the

355
00:13:00,870 --> 00:12:58,399
outrageous

356
00:13:02,069 --> 00:13:00,880
antics of these tv production crews at

357
00:13:04,389 --> 00:13:02,079
times

358
00:13:05,750 --> 00:13:04,399
it's stuck isn't it that's the idea

359
00:13:07,829 --> 00:13:05,760
i want people to watch the movie and

360
00:13:09,829 --> 00:13:07,839
come out of it angry

361
00:13:11,670 --> 00:13:09,839
well i wanted my money back as soon as i

362
00:13:13,750 --> 00:13:11,680
saw it i was that angry

363
00:13:15,590 --> 00:13:13,760
brian dunning and friend let's have

364
00:13:17,030 --> 00:13:15,600
another look at the just just give it a

365
00:13:19,190 --> 00:13:17,040
tap for me brian we'll get with the

366
00:13:20,629 --> 00:13:19,200
sound of bigfoot here

367
00:13:22,629 --> 00:13:20,639
there we go it's pretty solid it is

368
00:13:24,470 --> 00:13:22,639
pretty solid and it's very dark brown

369
00:13:25,910 --> 00:13:24,480
but as you say that that color will

370
00:13:27,990 --> 00:13:25,920
change over the time

371
00:13:30,550 --> 00:13:28,000
brian dunning does it have a name

372
00:13:32,790 --> 00:13:30,560
no no no

373
00:13:35,110 --> 00:13:32,800
what would you call it anyway no i i

374
00:13:36,870 --> 00:13:35,120
have no idea my daughter's really good

375
00:13:38,310 --> 00:13:36,880
at names i put her to the task and she

376
00:13:39,910 --> 00:13:38,320
didn't want to name it either so i think

377
00:13:40,629 --> 00:13:39,920
it's going to just be the bigfoot the

378
00:13:45,030 --> 00:13:40,639
big

379
00:13:46,900 --> 00:13:45,040
as we walk around the other side thank

380
00:13:58,150 --> 00:13:46,910
you very much

381
00:14:01,990 --> 00:14:00,389
hello this is maynard did you know that

382
00:14:05,430 --> 00:14:02,000
you could listen to the skeptic zone on

383
00:14:10,069 --> 00:14:05,440
youtube yes i know sounds crazy but it's

384
00:14:14,949 --> 00:14:12,629
also you can hear 40 logical fallacies

385
00:14:16,470 --> 00:14:14,959
with michelle bigesma and funny sketches

386
00:14:19,670 --> 00:14:16,480
with richard saunders and a host of

387
00:14:30,580 --> 00:14:21,350
just click on the youtube links on the

388
00:14:50,069 --> 00:14:48,230
[Music]

389
00:14:54,389 --> 00:14:50,079
here is the australian skeptic's

390
00:14:57,509 --> 00:14:54,399
newsletter newsletter number 150

391
00:14:58,629 --> 00:14:57,519
and this arrived in my inbox a few days

392
00:15:00,710 --> 00:14:58,639
ago

393
00:15:04,230 --> 00:15:00,720
written by tim mendenham what does tim

394
00:15:06,790 --> 00:15:04,240
have for us this week hi all it says

395
00:15:09,189 --> 00:15:06,800
in a time of trouble on many levels

396
00:15:12,470 --> 00:15:09,199
climate change war poverty pandemics

397
00:15:14,069 --> 00:15:12,480
continuing inflation cost of living is

398
00:15:16,710 --> 00:15:14,079
it still worthwhile to worry about

399
00:15:19,269 --> 00:15:16,720
pseudoscience and the paranormal

400
00:15:20,790 --> 00:15:19,279
well unlike what some believe we could

401
00:15:23,829 --> 00:15:20,800
actually think about more than one thing

402
00:15:27,110 --> 00:15:23,839
at a time in fact we probably deal with

403
00:15:29,350 --> 00:15:27,120
50 issues at a time in our normal lives

404
00:15:30,790 --> 00:15:29,360
so what's a couple of other issues

405
00:15:32,389 --> 00:15:30,800
thrown into the mix

406
00:15:34,870 --> 00:15:32,399
in this newsletter we'll cover a lot of

407
00:15:36,790 --> 00:15:34,880
those issues no doubt there will be more

408
00:15:39,670 --> 00:15:36,800
pressing things to worry about

409
00:15:41,910 --> 00:15:39,680
than some of them but it doesn't stop us

410
00:15:43,670 --> 00:15:41,920
caring and wanting to do something about

411
00:15:45,829 --> 00:15:43,680
pseudoscience and the paranormal

412
00:15:47,910 --> 00:15:45,839
multitasking here we come

413
00:15:49,430 --> 00:15:47,920
do something about the paranormal team

414
00:15:51,590 --> 00:15:49,440
that's an interesting

415
00:15:52,870 --> 00:15:51,600
interesting way to put it so how do you

416
00:15:54,629 --> 00:15:52,880
do something about something that

417
00:15:55,990 --> 00:15:54,639
doesn't exist

418
00:15:57,990 --> 00:15:56,000
hmm

419
00:15:59,030 --> 00:15:58,000
probably doesn't exist

420
00:15:59,910 --> 00:15:59,040
read on

421
00:16:04,069 --> 00:15:59,920
tim

422
00:16:06,629 --> 00:16:04,079
or gate him we'll do that skepticon 2022

423
00:16:08,629 --> 00:16:06,639
november 26-27

424
00:16:10,550 --> 00:16:08,639
we're happy to announce that the 2022

425
00:16:13,430 --> 00:16:10,560
annual australian skeptics national

426
00:16:15,910 --> 00:16:13,440
convention skepticon for 2022 will be

427
00:16:19,110 --> 00:16:15,920
held at the national library in canberra

428
00:16:22,389 --> 00:16:19,120
on the weekend of november 26th and 27th

429
00:16:25,030 --> 00:16:22,399
there will also be streaming of sessions

430
00:16:28,069 --> 00:16:25,040
for those unable to attend and social

431
00:16:30,150 --> 00:16:28,079
events before and during the convention

432
00:16:32,310 --> 00:16:30,160
among the key speakers will be an

433
00:16:35,030 --> 00:16:32,320
international contingent made up of

434
00:16:37,749 --> 00:16:35,040
claire klingenberg chair of the european

435
00:16:38,749 --> 00:16:37,759
council of skeptical organizations

436
00:16:41,189 --> 00:16:38,759
and

437
00:16:43,110 --> 00:16:41,199
co-organizer of the czech paranormal

438
00:16:45,590 --> 00:16:43,120
challenge as well as the hosts of the

439
00:16:48,629 --> 00:16:45,600
european skeptics podcast can't wait for

440
00:16:51,110 --> 00:16:48,639
that all being well and in this day and

441
00:16:53,110 --> 00:16:51,120
age there are always the possibilities

442
00:16:55,509 --> 00:16:53,120
of changes it will be the first

443
00:16:57,350 --> 00:16:55,519
face-to-face convention since 2019. we

444
00:17:00,150 --> 00:16:57,360
look forward to seeing you there further

445
00:17:02,230 --> 00:17:00,160
details and ticket sales will be

446
00:17:05,669 --> 00:17:02,240
available soon

447
00:17:08,470 --> 00:17:05,679
news items and don't forget that each of

448
00:17:10,870 --> 00:17:08,480
the news items i will mention

449
00:17:11,990 --> 00:17:10,880
are accompanied by a link in the

450
00:17:13,829 --> 00:17:12,000
newsletter

451
00:17:17,510 --> 00:17:13,839
for further reading

452
00:17:18,949 --> 00:17:17,520
behaviorists must confront psychiatry's

453
00:17:21,590 --> 00:17:18,959
pseudoscience

454
00:17:23,750 --> 00:17:21,600
a serious look at psychiatry medical

455
00:17:26,390 --> 00:17:23,760
scientists attempt to find a

456
00:17:28,549 --> 00:17:26,400
psychological basis for mental disorder

457
00:17:29,990 --> 00:17:28,559
but their efforts have failed

458
00:17:32,950 --> 00:17:30,000
that's the quote

459
00:17:35,350 --> 00:17:32,960
with a few exceptions but how well have

460
00:17:37,270 --> 00:17:35,360
psychiatrists filled the gaps quote

461
00:17:39,909 --> 00:17:37,280
psychiatry must be held accountable to

462
00:17:41,669 --> 00:17:39,919
the rules of science as behaviorists we

463
00:17:44,070 --> 00:17:41,679
must speak out about what has gone

464
00:17:45,750 --> 00:17:44,080
terribly wrong with mental health care

465
00:17:48,150 --> 00:17:45,760
it happened before with eugenics and

466
00:17:50,230 --> 00:17:48,160
lobotomy because of psychiatry's

467
00:17:53,110 --> 00:17:50,240
wrongdoing with respect to the

468
00:17:55,350 --> 00:17:53,120
scientific method mean quote

469
00:17:56,549 --> 00:17:55,360
science on why people see

470
00:17:58,310 --> 00:17:56,559
ghosts

471
00:17:59,990 --> 00:17:58,320
long article takes a look at

472
00:18:01,990 --> 00:18:00,000
parapsychology

473
00:18:04,310 --> 00:18:02,000
and the possible reasons for belief in

474
00:18:08,150 --> 00:18:04,320
the paranormal with comments from both

475
00:18:10,630 --> 00:18:08,160
skeptics susan blackmore and researchers

476
00:18:13,350 --> 00:18:10,640
an interesting piece

477
00:18:14,630 --> 00:18:13,360
mercenaries inspired by psychic to fight

478
00:18:16,710 --> 00:18:14,640
in yemen

479
00:18:19,510 --> 00:18:16,720
two former german soldiers have gone on

480
00:18:22,230 --> 00:18:19,520
trial accused of attempting to form a

481
00:18:24,470 --> 00:18:22,240
paramilitary group to fight in yemen's

482
00:18:25,430 --> 00:18:24,480
civil war after being inspired by a

483
00:18:27,350 --> 00:18:25,440
psychic

484
00:18:30,710 --> 00:18:27,360
they took steps to set up what

485
00:18:33,430 --> 00:18:30,720
prosecutors say amounted to a quote

486
00:18:36,230 --> 00:18:33,440
terrorist organization end quote after

487
00:18:38,230 --> 00:18:36,240
receiving quote messages from a fortune

488
00:18:41,029 --> 00:18:38,240
teller that they

489
00:18:43,590 --> 00:18:41,039
understood as binding instructions for

490
00:18:47,909 --> 00:18:43,600
action language not to mention financial

491
00:18:49,909 --> 00:18:47,919
gains which might be another motivation

492
00:18:51,190 --> 00:18:49,919
predicting the outcome of the war in

493
00:18:53,909 --> 00:18:51,200
ukraine

494
00:18:55,990 --> 00:18:53,919
psychics and net york will never let a

495
00:18:57,990 --> 00:18:56,000
good opportunity pass without taking

496
00:19:00,789 --> 00:18:58,000
advantage of it quote

497
00:19:04,549 --> 00:19:00,799
putin is dragging his feet with the war

498
00:19:07,190 --> 00:19:04,559
why does he need that and quote asks a

499
00:19:10,390 --> 00:19:07,200
card reader she is one of dozens of

500
00:19:12,789 --> 00:19:10,400
prognosis on valentina koltsova's

501
00:19:15,430 --> 00:19:12,799
youtube channel she talks about the

502
00:19:17,750 --> 00:19:15,440
future president of kazakhstan the

503
00:19:19,430 --> 00:19:17,760
character of belarusian president

504
00:19:22,230 --> 00:19:19,440
luchenko's son

505
00:19:25,830 --> 00:19:22,240
and putin's mystery illness she is one

506
00:19:29,750 --> 00:19:25,840
of among a bevy of tarot readers

507
00:19:32,070 --> 00:19:29,760
numerologists astrologists in russia

508
00:19:34,870 --> 00:19:32,080
ukraine and beyond who have been making

509
00:19:36,470 --> 00:19:34,880
headlines with their forecasts about the

510
00:19:39,669 --> 00:19:36,480
future of the conflict often

511
00:19:41,990 --> 00:19:39,679
contradicting each other surprise me

512
00:19:43,909 --> 00:19:42,000
their video and posts are getting

513
00:19:46,070 --> 00:19:43,919
millions of views they are being

514
00:19:47,830 --> 00:19:46,080
interviewed by prominent outlets and tv

515
00:19:50,870 --> 00:19:47,840
channels giving their pseudo-scientific

516
00:19:53,350 --> 00:19:50,880
claims wide exposure

517
00:19:55,990 --> 00:19:53,360
man that doesn't surprise me

518
00:19:58,950 --> 00:19:56,000
one little bit

519
00:20:01,110 --> 00:19:58,960
ghost hunters hit back at ricky gervais

520
00:20:03,830 --> 00:20:01,120
comedian and noted skeptic ricky gervais

521
00:20:05,909 --> 00:20:03,840
has upset the ghost hunting community by

522
00:20:07,029 --> 00:20:05,919
saying there were no such things as

523
00:20:09,510 --> 00:20:07,039
ghosts

524
00:20:12,070 --> 00:20:09,520
as part of his netflix stand-up special

525
00:20:14,470 --> 00:20:12,080
super nature gervais said that ghost

526
00:20:16,390 --> 00:20:14,480
hunters have quote thousands and

527
00:20:18,830 --> 00:20:16,400
thousands of hours of footage and

528
00:20:21,110 --> 00:20:18,840
they've never seen a

529
00:20:22,950 --> 00:20:21,120
expletive ghost

530
00:20:25,590 --> 00:20:22,960
not one end quote

531
00:20:28,549 --> 00:20:25,600
rachel parsons of redford ghost hunting

532
00:20:31,270 --> 00:20:28,559
says quote it's obvious his comments are

533
00:20:32,310 --> 00:20:31,280
in jest and not to be taken seriously

534
00:20:34,390 --> 00:20:32,320
end quote

535
00:20:36,870 --> 00:20:34,400
which means she doesn't take gervase's

536
00:20:38,789 --> 00:20:36,880
skepticism very well

537
00:20:41,510 --> 00:20:38,799
the june issue of the skeptic magazine

538
00:20:43,990 --> 00:20:41,520
which tim and i just discussed earlier

539
00:20:45,909 --> 00:20:44,000
on in this episode is out now in digital

540
00:20:46,830 --> 00:20:45,919
form and will hit the streets in hard

541
00:20:48,549 --> 00:20:46,840
copy

542
00:20:50,789 --> 00:20:48,559
soon

543
00:20:53,830 --> 00:20:50,799
and a reminder that you can subscribe to

544
00:20:55,909 --> 00:20:53,840
that magazine at skeptics.com.adu

545
00:20:57,990 --> 00:20:55,919
you can get the hard copy

546
00:21:00,630 --> 00:20:58,000
or the digital copy

547
00:21:03,190 --> 00:21:00,640
or both and if you subscribe to the hard

548
00:21:05,029 --> 00:21:03,200
copy you can get the digital copy for

549
00:21:07,270 --> 00:21:05,039
free

550
00:21:09,510 --> 00:21:07,280
and as an aside i'll say what i do when

551
00:21:11,270 --> 00:21:09,520
i receive my digital copy is i copy it

552
00:21:12,870 --> 00:21:11,280
into my ipad

553
00:21:15,510 --> 00:21:12,880
uh books app

554
00:21:16,390 --> 00:21:15,520
so i've got the complete the complete

555
00:21:18,870 --> 00:21:16,400
set

556
00:21:22,230 --> 00:21:18,880
of the magazine from australian skeptics

557
00:21:23,990 --> 00:21:22,240
at my fingertips on my ipad all the time

558
00:21:26,310 --> 00:21:24,000
a handy reference

559
00:21:29,750 --> 00:21:26,320
items of interest travel tip

560
00:21:31,669 --> 00:21:29,760
merseyside historic city hall is haunted

561
00:21:33,830 --> 00:21:31,679
it's been nearly 20 years since the most

562
00:21:36,549 --> 00:21:33,840
haunted team headed to liverpool to

563
00:21:39,909 --> 00:21:36,559
investigate crocs death hall

564
00:21:42,070 --> 00:21:39,919
they're back to see some ghoulies

565
00:21:43,669 --> 00:21:42,080
which gives liverpool one more string to

566
00:21:47,029 --> 00:21:43,679
its bow apart from

567
00:21:49,029 --> 00:21:47,039
football and mop tops

568
00:21:50,390 --> 00:21:49,039
lawyer quits high-flying job to become a

569
00:21:52,630 --> 00:21:50,400
pet psychic

570
00:21:57,830 --> 00:21:52,640
a top lawyer

571
00:22:01,669 --> 00:21:57,840
jacked in her

572
00:22:03,350 --> 00:22:01,679
000 pound job it's a nice sum but it

573
00:22:06,230 --> 00:22:03,360
doesn't actually sound

574
00:22:09,669 --> 00:22:06,240
like much of a high-flying lawyer and

575
00:22:11,830 --> 00:22:09,679
says that she now speaks to animals

576
00:22:13,830 --> 00:22:11,840
i speak to animals all the time they

577
00:22:16,230 --> 00:22:13,840
just don't answer back much

578
00:22:18,149 --> 00:22:16,240
and she's earning more money than

579
00:22:19,669 --> 00:22:18,159
she was before

580
00:22:21,510 --> 00:22:19,679
she says she taught herself to

581
00:22:24,950 --> 00:22:21,520
communicate with animals by doing her

582
00:22:27,830 --> 00:22:24,960
own research and tim says here ah

583
00:22:30,230 --> 00:22:27,840
that's what he actually wrote a a

584
00:22:32,549 --> 00:22:30,240
gh exclamation mark

585
00:22:33,750 --> 00:22:32,559
and reading a series of books on the

586
00:22:35,990 --> 00:22:33,760
practice

587
00:22:37,669 --> 00:22:36,000
what more would you need

588
00:22:39,990 --> 00:22:37,679
during a reading she sits in a quiet

589
00:22:42,950 --> 00:22:40,000
room and studies a photo of the animal

590
00:22:44,390 --> 00:22:42,960
and telepathically asks them a series of

591
00:22:46,710 --> 00:22:44,400
questions

592
00:22:48,149 --> 00:22:46,720
woof woof woof meow meow wolf squeak

593
00:22:49,990 --> 00:22:48,159
squeak

594
00:22:51,669 --> 00:22:50,000
tim didn't write that

595
00:22:52,710 --> 00:22:51,679
she records her questions and the

596
00:22:55,190 --> 00:22:52,720
animal's

597
00:22:56,710 --> 00:22:55,200
responses on her phone so owners can

598
00:22:59,430 --> 00:22:56,720
listen back

599
00:23:01,590 --> 00:22:59,440
to the full exchange

600
00:23:03,590 --> 00:23:01,600
and here i am wasting my time producing

601
00:23:04,789 --> 00:23:03,600
a skeptical podcast

602
00:23:06,630 --> 00:23:04,799
ah dear

603
00:23:09,510 --> 00:23:06,640
woof to all the dogs listening at the

604
00:23:12,149 --> 00:23:09,520
moment

605
00:23:14,070 --> 00:23:12,159
psychic reveals why hospitals are the

606
00:23:16,070 --> 00:23:14,080
most haunted places

607
00:23:19,669 --> 00:23:16,080
with hardly a mention of hospitals at

608
00:23:23,350 --> 00:23:19,679
all but you do get quote she arms

609
00:23:27,029 --> 00:23:23,360
herself with a wand

610
00:23:29,350 --> 00:23:27,039
crafted from unique healing crystals and

611
00:23:33,029 --> 00:23:29,360
sacred spray

612
00:23:35,750 --> 00:23:33,039
she makes herself and nicknames holy

613
00:23:37,669 --> 00:23:35,760
water a delicate mix of prayers and

614
00:23:39,190 --> 00:23:37,679
energy from crystals

615
00:23:40,630 --> 00:23:39,200
surely somebody just put a lot of words

616
00:23:42,070 --> 00:23:40,640
into a hat and pulled them out and says

617
00:23:44,310 --> 00:23:42,080
here's a sentence

618
00:23:47,430 --> 00:23:44,320
this is an out and out promotion of a

619
00:23:49,510 --> 00:23:47,440
sydney based psychic and exorcist

620
00:23:50,630 --> 00:23:49,520
surprisingly they don't mention quantum

621
00:23:53,190 --> 00:23:50,640
mechanics

622
00:23:55,909 --> 00:23:53,200
at all but how can you bombard demons if

623
00:23:59,350 --> 00:23:55,919
you don't have a lump of quantum

624
00:24:02,149 --> 00:23:59,360
i've often wondered that myself tim

625
00:24:05,029 --> 00:24:02,159
and finally hobart june the 15th to the

626
00:24:07,110 --> 00:24:05,039
26th an exhibition of miracles

627
00:24:08,789 --> 00:24:07,120
evidence from miraculous events that

628
00:24:10,630 --> 00:24:08,799
have occurred around the world will be

629
00:24:14,630 --> 00:24:10,640
explored and discussed by medical

630
00:24:16,230 --> 00:24:14,640
experts and some are real medical people

631
00:24:18,310 --> 00:24:16,240
during an exhibition taking place at the

632
00:24:20,710 --> 00:24:18,320
waterside pavilion in hobart an

633
00:24:22,870 --> 00:24:20,720
innovation by the archdiocese of hobart

634
00:24:26,070 --> 00:24:22,880
the exhibition titled quote miraculous

635
00:24:29,269 --> 00:24:26,080
events science tests faith and quote

636
00:24:31,909 --> 00:24:29,279
will consist of quiet interactive and

637
00:24:34,310 --> 00:24:31,919
documentary style presentations of more

638
00:24:36,230 --> 00:24:34,320
than 20 miracles including eyewitness

639
00:24:37,830 --> 00:24:36,240
testimonies

640
00:24:39,269 --> 00:24:37,840
and findings from scientific

641
00:24:42,789 --> 00:24:39,279
investigations

642
00:24:45,669 --> 00:24:42,799
the miracles will include inexplicable

643
00:24:47,190 --> 00:24:45,679
healings from deafness blindness cancer

644
00:24:50,470 --> 00:24:47,200
paralysis

645
00:24:54,230 --> 00:24:52,630
somehow having an exhibition of miracles

646
00:24:56,789 --> 00:24:54,240
seems a bit weird

647
00:24:59,510 --> 00:24:56,799
is it one of those industry shows with

648
00:25:01,909 --> 00:24:59,520
different stores breaking their wares

649
00:25:04,230 --> 00:25:01,919
quote our miracles are better than their

650
00:25:06,630 --> 00:25:04,240
miracles end quote

651
00:25:09,430 --> 00:25:06,640
lots of talks as well

652
00:25:11,650 --> 00:25:09,440
that sounds like a

653
00:25:15,190 --> 00:25:11,660
fascinating experience

654
00:25:16,710 --> 00:25:15,200
[Music]

655
00:25:18,470 --> 00:25:16,720
and that was the australian skeptic's

656
00:25:20,070 --> 00:25:18,480
newsletter normally

657
00:25:22,390 --> 00:25:20,080
normally read to you from canada of

658
00:25:24,630 --> 00:25:22,400
course by adrian hill

659
00:25:26,310 --> 00:25:24,640
hopefully adrian will be available for

660
00:25:28,630 --> 00:25:26,320
the next one but we are thinking about

661
00:25:30,549 --> 00:25:28,640
you adrian if you want to subscribe to

662
00:25:32,630 --> 00:25:30,559
this newsletter and get it delivered to

663
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:32,640
your inbox every other week just head

664
00:25:36,770 --> 00:25:43,190
[Music]

665
00:25:46,870 --> 00:25:45,029
i don't know about you guys but i really

666
00:25:49,110 --> 00:25:46,880
love conferences meeting like-minded

667
00:25:51,190 --> 00:25:49,120
people in person is always a blast yeah

668
00:25:53,430 --> 00:25:51,200
andras i think we all agree nothing

669
00:25:55,350 --> 00:25:53,440
compares to that experience guys i still

670
00:25:58,310 --> 00:25:55,360
fondly remember the one where i met you

671
00:26:01,110 --> 00:25:58,320
for the first time esc 2017 in

672
00:26:03,590 --> 00:26:01,120
watchtower yes see that's the european

673
00:26:05,909 --> 00:26:03,600
skeptics congress yeah that was fun ah

674
00:26:08,230 --> 00:26:05,919
we should do it again and we can pontus

675
00:26:10,710 --> 00:26:08,240
hanukkah's right this fall in vienna

676
00:26:13,909 --> 00:26:10,720
austria yeah between the 9th and 11th of

677
00:26:16,230 --> 00:26:13,919
september just go to exo.org and

678
00:26:18,149 --> 00:26:16,240
register now early bird prices still

679
00:26:20,070 --> 00:26:18,159
apply yeah and there will be speakers

680
00:26:23,029 --> 00:26:20,080
from all over europe talking about all

681
00:26:25,110 --> 00:26:23,039
kinds of stuff indeed science education

682
00:26:26,789 --> 00:26:25,120
policy making you name it not to mention

683
00:26:28,950 --> 00:26:26,799
all the networking and all the fun we

684
00:26:30,390 --> 00:26:28,960
will have so come and meet us in vienna

685
00:26:33,190 --> 00:26:30,400
we're looking forward to seeing you

686
00:26:36,060 --> 00:26:33,200
there yeah see you at the european

687
00:26:44,390 --> 00:26:36,070
skeptics congress 2022

688
00:26:45,750 --> 00:26:44,400
[Music]

689
00:26:47,910 --> 00:26:45,760
and now

690
00:26:50,630 --> 00:26:47,920
a reading from the book of tim

691
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:50,640
[Music]

692
00:26:59,190 --> 00:26:53,450
with tim mendham

693
00:27:04,789 --> 00:27:02,070
i'm with tim mandapalo tim hello richard

694
00:27:06,390 --> 00:27:04,799
hello i've come here to um skeptic's

695
00:27:07,350 --> 00:27:06,400
headquarters i don't often come here

696
00:27:09,750 --> 00:27:07,360
every now and then i'll come to

697
00:27:11,190 --> 00:27:09,760
skeptic's headquarters towers skeptics

698
00:27:13,110 --> 00:27:11,200
towers

699
00:27:14,230 --> 00:27:13,120
this is a major enterprise right you've

700
00:27:15,909 --> 00:27:14,240
got

701
00:27:17,430 --> 00:27:15,919
you've i i know it's a serious place

702
00:27:18,789 --> 00:27:17,440
because you have the uh kookaburras

703
00:27:20,149 --> 00:27:18,799
laughing outside sometimes that's right

704
00:27:22,230 --> 00:27:20,159
well that's the emblem of the skeptics

705
00:27:25,110 --> 00:27:22,240
you see the australian kookaburra now

706
00:27:26,870 --> 00:27:25,120
talking about funny things the the

707
00:27:29,590 --> 00:27:26,880
latest issue of

708
00:27:32,470 --> 00:27:29,600
our journal the skeptic is about to hit

709
00:27:34,549 --> 00:27:32,480
the post boxes of subscribers and but

710
00:27:37,750 --> 00:27:34,559
it's already hit the inboxes of people

711
00:27:39,750 --> 00:27:37,760
who subscribe digitally that's right

712
00:27:41,110 --> 00:27:39,760
that's correct richard yes it's very

713
00:27:42,870 --> 00:27:41,120
well put

714
00:27:44,070 --> 00:27:42,880
it's yeah it is currently the printer so

715
00:27:45,350 --> 00:27:44,080
their printers takes a while and then

716
00:27:46,789 --> 00:27:45,360
they got to go through the mailing house

717
00:27:48,630 --> 00:27:46,799
and that sort of stuff but the digital

718
00:27:50,950 --> 00:27:48,640
copy is out for people who subscribe to

719
00:27:52,310 --> 00:27:50,960
the digital like all like you or who can

720
00:27:55,029 --> 00:27:52,320
get the

721
00:27:57,350 --> 00:27:55,039
hard copy and the digital for free

722
00:28:00,549 --> 00:27:57,360
and that's a real plus yes okay so this

723
00:28:02,230 --> 00:28:00,559
is the latest issue is volume 42 number

724
00:28:04,630 --> 00:28:02,240
two which means that we've been going

725
00:28:06,630 --> 00:28:04,640
for 42 years with this magazine right

726
00:28:07,430 --> 00:28:06,640
and uh richard was reading it as a small

727
00:28:09,750 --> 00:28:07,440
child

728
00:28:11,590 --> 00:28:09,760
and i was editing it

729
00:28:14,310 --> 00:28:11,600
not such a small child but i certainly

730
00:28:16,310 --> 00:28:14,320
was reading the early issues i remember

731
00:28:17,510 --> 00:28:16,320
in in the first maybe the first five

732
00:28:18,950 --> 00:28:17,520
years of the

733
00:28:20,630 --> 00:28:18,960
publication i would have been reading

734
00:28:23,029 --> 00:28:20,640
some of those issues yeah and the

735
00:28:24,470 --> 00:28:23,039
magazines changed a lot

736
00:28:26,149 --> 00:28:24,480
and people can find that out for

737
00:28:27,669 --> 00:28:26,159
themselves they can look at all the old

738
00:28:29,909 --> 00:28:27,679
issues including the very first issue

739
00:28:32,470 --> 00:28:29,919
which is four pages for free for free

740
00:28:34,149 --> 00:28:32,480
yes absolutely and this was a classic uh

741
00:28:37,029 --> 00:28:34,159
copy of the magazine it was sort of like

742
00:28:38,710 --> 00:28:37,039
one sheet of paper folded yes and uh it

743
00:28:41,029 --> 00:28:38,720
was it was cute the way it was done but

744
00:28:42,870 --> 00:28:41,039
i mean it did improve gradually what was

745
00:28:49,909 --> 00:28:42,880
the big headline

746
00:28:53,590 --> 00:28:52,070
wrong police and of course big picture

747
00:28:55,269 --> 00:28:53,600
of james randy on the cover because

748
00:28:56,470 --> 00:28:55,279
doris stokes wrong isn't just a headline

749
00:28:59,190 --> 00:28:56,480
that we had ready to go and just threw

750
00:29:01,510 --> 00:28:59,200
it in every time it was it was a common

751
00:29:02,950 --> 00:29:01,520
occurrence she was a popular medium at

752
00:29:04,710 --> 00:29:02,960
the time and it's interesting that the

753
00:29:06,389 --> 00:29:04,720
early stories were all about sort of

754
00:29:07,990 --> 00:29:06,399
predictions and psychics and that was

755
00:29:10,230 --> 00:29:08,000
the main area alternative medicine

756
00:29:11,990 --> 00:29:10,240
hardly cropped up not in those not for a

757
00:29:14,230 --> 00:29:12,000
while yeah the first issue had something

758
00:29:16,549 --> 00:29:14,240
a bit of psychic surgery right people

759
00:29:18,789 --> 00:29:16,559
dig their hands inside your body to re

760
00:29:20,230 --> 00:29:18,799
pull out all the cancerous changes

761
00:29:21,590 --> 00:29:20,240
but yes alternative medicine is of

762
00:29:23,750 --> 00:29:21,600
course now a staple if you like of

763
00:29:26,149 --> 00:29:23,760
skeptical activity certainly and the bug

764
00:29:28,630 --> 00:29:26,159
bearing the serious most serious aspects

765
00:29:30,630 --> 00:29:28,640
of what we do but yeah it's taken a

766
00:29:32,710 --> 00:29:30,640
while to actually become

767
00:29:35,590 --> 00:29:32,720
a core part of the skeptical things

768
00:29:37,590 --> 00:29:35,600
things come and go but what can readers

769
00:29:40,149 --> 00:29:37,600
look forward to when they do get either

770
00:29:41,990 --> 00:29:40,159
their digital copy or their physical

771
00:29:43,590 --> 00:29:42,000
copy right well yeah the main feature of

772
00:29:45,269 --> 00:29:43,600
this issue we always have a big feature

773
00:29:47,669 --> 00:29:45,279
which is central on a particular theme

774
00:29:50,389 --> 00:29:47,679
and this time it's on science and

775
00:29:52,070 --> 00:29:50,399
pretenders for science and basically the

776
00:29:54,310 --> 00:29:52,080
idea is that there's a lot of studio

777
00:29:57,190 --> 00:29:54,320
science that comes along and tags on the

778
00:29:58,950 --> 00:29:57,200
coattails of science yes now these these

779
00:30:00,710 --> 00:29:58,960
pseudo sciences always say that well

780
00:30:03,029 --> 00:30:00,720
science doesn't understand and science

781
00:30:05,669 --> 00:30:03,039
can't that they're waiting for science

782
00:30:08,310 --> 00:30:05,679
to catch up that's right i've heard that

783
00:30:09,669 --> 00:30:08,320
mostly from homeopathic can science

784
00:30:11,190 --> 00:30:09,679
explain love

785
00:30:12,950 --> 00:30:11,200
that's what that's right i've heard that

786
00:30:14,549 --> 00:30:12,960
before yeah all those sort of things

787
00:30:15,750 --> 00:30:14,559
science doesn't know everything science

788
00:30:17,510 --> 00:30:15,760
doesn't know everything science doesn't

789
00:30:19,029 --> 00:30:17,520
know there's energy's unknown to science

790
00:30:20,710 --> 00:30:19,039
as soon as you hear somebody they're red

791
00:30:21,990 --> 00:30:20,720
flags as soon as you hear someone saying

792
00:30:23,590 --> 00:30:22,000
to you well science doesn't know

793
00:30:25,750 --> 00:30:23,600
everything then you you've got them you

794
00:30:26,870 --> 00:30:25,760
know ah you don't know what you're

795
00:30:28,549 --> 00:30:26,880
talking about

796
00:30:29,750 --> 00:30:28,559
science doesn't know everything exactly

797
00:30:32,230 --> 00:30:29,760
the thing is that they always say

798
00:30:34,470 --> 00:30:32,240
science doesn't know everything but

799
00:30:35,990 --> 00:30:34,480
we do but we do yes and because the

800
00:30:37,909 --> 00:30:36,000
trouble is with these is that when they

801
00:30:39,110 --> 00:30:37,919
do find a scientist who supports their

802
00:30:40,470 --> 00:30:39,120
idea

803
00:30:43,029 --> 00:30:40,480
they grab hold of them because they

804
00:30:44,870 --> 00:30:43,039
think a scientist has yeah impromata has

805
00:30:46,149 --> 00:30:44,880
a reputation see look a scientist agrees

806
00:30:47,750 --> 00:30:46,159
with it but you were just rubbishing

807
00:30:49,190 --> 00:30:47,760
science and now you've got it on your

808
00:30:50,789 --> 00:30:49,200
side yeah okay

809
00:30:52,310 --> 00:30:50,799
you'll always find a scientist somewhere

810
00:30:55,110 --> 00:30:52,320
to support you you will always find it

811
00:30:58,470 --> 00:30:55,120
yes yes so a phd who is

812
00:31:00,470 --> 00:30:58,480
a food by any name yes um but okay this

813
00:31:02,789 --> 00:31:00,480
issue has a big feature we're looking at

814
00:31:04,310 --> 00:31:02,799
science pretenders if you like across

815
00:31:05,909 --> 00:31:04,320
various ideas we have a couple of

816
00:31:07,830 --> 00:31:05,919
articles which actually explains the

817
00:31:08,870 --> 00:31:07,840
whole concept and how to spot the

818
00:31:10,470 --> 00:31:08,880
difference

819
00:31:12,710 --> 00:31:10,480
and then we have we look at areas like

820
00:31:14,070 --> 00:31:12,720
uh quantum quackery and quantum pops up

821
00:31:17,190 --> 00:31:14,080
have you ever heard quantum used among

822
00:31:19,509 --> 00:31:17,200
psychics richard never what what's this

823
00:31:21,110 --> 00:31:19,519
term quantum

824
00:31:23,190 --> 00:31:21,120
frequently i mean

825
00:31:24,630 --> 00:31:23,200
let me bring in what you're about to say

826
00:31:25,990 --> 00:31:24,640
there's an article in me

827
00:31:27,350 --> 00:31:26,000
in me

828
00:31:28,710 --> 00:31:27,360
let me preempt what you're about to say

829
00:31:30,789 --> 00:31:28,720
there's an article by me in the magazine

830
00:31:32,630 --> 00:31:30,799
about the mind body spirit and the

831
00:31:34,950 --> 00:31:32,640
number of times over the last 20 years

832
00:31:37,190 --> 00:31:34,960
i've seen and heard the word quantum and

833
00:31:39,509 --> 00:31:37,200
mind body spirit is

834
00:31:41,269 --> 00:31:39,519
stunning it was almost every time i [\h__\h]

835
00:31:42,470 --> 00:31:41,279
yes and it's dragged up but it's sort of

836
00:31:44,310 --> 00:31:42,480
and this is the science doesn't

837
00:31:46,389 --> 00:31:44,320
understand but they keep quoting quantum

838
00:31:47,669 --> 00:31:46,399
and obviously it doesn't take long to

839
00:31:49,669 --> 00:31:47,679
sort of push into the conversation you

840
00:31:51,190 --> 00:31:49,679
realize they don't understand quantity

841
00:31:53,990 --> 00:31:51,200
but it's a handy word because quantum is

842
00:31:56,310 --> 00:31:54,000
weird yeah i mean um cutting edge and

843
00:31:57,590 --> 00:31:56,320
new and yeah blah blah blah once said

844
00:31:59,269 --> 00:31:57,600
that if you think you understand quantum

845
00:32:01,350 --> 00:31:59,279
mechanics you don't

846
00:32:03,110 --> 00:32:01,360
but i mean so that quantum has dragged

847
00:32:04,870 --> 00:32:03,120
up a lot so it's an article here quantum

848
00:32:06,710 --> 00:32:04,880
quackery which is an older article done

849
00:32:09,350 --> 00:32:06,720
from the us actually

850
00:32:11,509 --> 00:32:09,360
but uh it's called this we have an

851
00:32:13,509 --> 00:32:11,519
article about the media

852
00:32:15,909 --> 00:32:13,519
appropriating science the other way to

853
00:32:17,430 --> 00:32:15,919
drag it into pseudoscience and to have

854
00:32:19,029 --> 00:32:17,440
that imprimatur of a scientist

855
00:32:20,950 --> 00:32:19,039
commenting and that's an article that

856
00:32:23,110 --> 00:32:20,960
you wrote richard uh along with an

857
00:32:25,750 --> 00:32:23,120
interview with brian dunning concerning

858
00:32:27,669 --> 00:32:25,760
his his movie of course science friction

859
00:32:29,990 --> 00:32:27,679
the new brian dunning documentary yes

860
00:32:31,430 --> 00:32:30,000
which you can look at online yeah it's

861
00:32:33,029 --> 00:32:31,440
very excellent actually that quotes a

862
00:32:35,029 --> 00:32:33,039
lot of scientists complaining or you

863
00:32:37,190 --> 00:32:35,039
know just stating their experiences of

864
00:32:38,710 --> 00:32:37,200
how they were used and abused by

865
00:32:40,950 --> 00:32:38,720
documentary makers and things like that

866
00:32:42,389 --> 00:32:40,960
hardly done by hardly done by okay well

867
00:32:44,549 --> 00:32:42,399
then we have a long article which looks

868
00:32:46,870 --> 00:32:44,559
at archaeology and pseudo-archaeology

869
00:32:49,590 --> 00:32:46,880
especially in pop culture so you only

870
00:32:51,430 --> 00:32:49,600
need to mention indiana jones and lara

871
00:32:53,190 --> 00:32:51,440
croft and all these people to realize

872
00:32:55,269 --> 00:32:53,200
there's a lot of stuff which is

873
00:32:58,549 --> 00:32:55,279
not very scientific about how

874
00:33:01,509 --> 00:32:58,559
archaeology is presented it's like um

875
00:33:03,350 --> 00:33:01,519
forensics is presented on tv is they do

876
00:33:05,830 --> 00:33:03,360
it in one afternoon or something yeah

877
00:33:07,190 --> 00:33:05,840
you know and and this is goes way back

878
00:33:09,029 --> 00:33:07,200
into the history of archaeology as

879
00:33:11,190 --> 00:33:09,039
people that are putting forward

880
00:33:13,029 --> 00:33:11,200
pop theories and you know sort of pretty

881
00:33:15,029 --> 00:33:13,039
superficial theories about archaeology

882
00:33:16,870 --> 00:33:15,039
so we cover a lot of that uh science

883
00:33:20,070 --> 00:33:16,880
pretenders stuff in the issue we also as

884
00:33:21,269 --> 00:33:20,080
you say have an article about um the

885
00:33:25,909 --> 00:33:21,279
mind body

886
00:33:27,669 --> 00:33:25,919
we should be yeah uh

887
00:33:30,070 --> 00:33:27,679
convention exhibition which you go to

888
00:33:31,830 --> 00:33:30,080
quite regularly yes and as you say there

889
00:33:33,830 --> 00:33:31,840
are predictable surprises that's what i

890
00:33:35,029 --> 00:33:33,840
called the article predictable surprises

891
00:33:36,149 --> 00:33:35,039
because every now and then you'll see

892
00:33:37,909 --> 00:33:36,159
something say well i haven't seen that

893
00:33:39,029 --> 00:33:37,919
before but you can predict that's going

894
00:33:40,789 --> 00:33:39,039
to happen

895
00:33:42,870 --> 00:33:40,799
or there are things you have seen before

896
00:33:44,230 --> 00:33:42,880
of many things i've seen before yes we

897
00:33:46,470 --> 00:33:44,240
also have an interesting article about

898
00:33:48,549 --> 00:33:46,480
uh the australian anti-vaccination

899
00:33:50,950 --> 00:33:48,559
network which has been trying to take

900
00:33:53,190 --> 00:33:50,960
the children's vaccinations against the

901
00:33:55,110 --> 00:33:53,200
covert to court to have it stopped yes

902
00:33:56,710 --> 00:33:55,120
and uh they didn't do that well actually

903
00:33:58,230 --> 00:33:56,720
very well at all there's a punchline

904
00:33:59,990 --> 00:33:58,240
which i'll give away then court didn't

905
00:34:02,070 --> 00:34:00,000
actually think they had any any

906
00:34:05,110 --> 00:34:02,080
justification for their uh thoughts at

907
00:34:07,190 --> 00:34:05,120
all so yeah they had no standing in the

908
00:34:09,270 --> 00:34:07,200
in the the argument

909
00:34:11,109 --> 00:34:09,280
we then have a few other articles uh

910
00:34:13,829 --> 00:34:11,119
looking what we call the hall of shame

911
00:34:15,909 --> 00:34:13,839
which is looking about people making

912
00:34:17,990 --> 00:34:15,919
claims yeah quack claims

913
00:34:20,230 --> 00:34:18,000
pseudoscientific claims dangerous claims

914
00:34:22,470 --> 00:34:20,240
in alternative medicine areas and how

915
00:34:24,230 --> 00:34:22,480
well the regulators respond to that

916
00:34:26,470 --> 00:34:24,240
that's good and well well it's not this

917
00:34:28,389 --> 00:34:26,480
is the term

918
00:34:30,550 --> 00:34:28,399
loosely used because at times they don't

919
00:34:32,149 --> 00:34:30,560
respond very well right right so we look

920
00:34:33,829 --> 00:34:32,159
at a range of different regulators and a

921
00:34:35,430 --> 00:34:33,839
range of these different claims as to

922
00:34:36,629 --> 00:34:35,440
how they have responded

923
00:34:38,149 --> 00:34:36,639
and then of course we have the usual

924
00:34:39,829 --> 00:34:38,159
things the usual sort of columns about

925
00:34:41,190 --> 00:34:39,839
sort of yet what goes around is one of

926
00:34:42,389 --> 00:34:41,200
my favorites yes

927
00:34:43,430 --> 00:34:42,399
which which we often hear on the

928
00:34:45,589 --> 00:34:43,440
skeptics

929
00:34:52,950 --> 00:34:45,599
this one we have about uh sri stanford

930
00:34:56,230 --> 00:34:54,230
a lot of other things and a crossword

931
00:34:57,829 --> 00:34:56,240
puzzle of course which is a puzzle yeah

932
00:35:01,829 --> 00:34:57,839
yeah so there's a lot of stuff to read

933
00:35:03,510 --> 00:35:01,839
in this session and letters to learn

934
00:35:05,349 --> 00:35:03,520
including one by me i read yeah that's

935
00:35:06,390 --> 00:35:05,359
right i wrote a letter to you and you

936
00:35:07,990 --> 00:35:06,400
published it

937
00:35:09,349 --> 00:35:08,000
i know okay people actually i don't know

938
00:35:10,550 --> 00:35:09,359
why i publish anything by you but i

939
00:35:11,750 --> 00:35:10,560
don't know what you do that's the way it

940
00:35:12,950 --> 00:35:11,760
goes but i mean yeah there's a lot of

941
00:35:14,310 --> 00:35:12,960
stuff to to have a look at in the

942
00:35:16,069 --> 00:35:14,320
magazine i

943
00:35:18,390 --> 00:35:16,079
there's always one sample issue which we

944
00:35:20,230 --> 00:35:18,400
will have up fairly soon actually on the

945
00:35:22,470 --> 00:35:20,240
uh on the website so you can get a

946
00:35:23,589 --> 00:35:22,480
teaser yeah but uh we have these things

947
00:35:25,030 --> 00:35:23,599
regularly all these features and

948
00:35:26,470 --> 00:35:25,040
articles and what goes around and that

949
00:35:27,910 --> 00:35:26,480
sort of stuff it's a great magazine look

950
00:35:29,510 --> 00:35:27,920
folks if you don't subscribe to the

951
00:35:30,630 --> 00:35:29,520
skeptic magazine from australia give it

952
00:35:31,710 --> 00:35:30,640
a go

953
00:35:34,390 --> 00:35:31,720
just go to

954
00:35:36,150 --> 00:35:34,400
skeptics.com.u you can easily subscribe

955
00:35:38,069 --> 00:35:36,160
and if you get the physical copy you get

956
00:35:39,910 --> 00:35:38,079
the digital copy for free so you can

957
00:35:41,670 --> 00:35:39,920
read it on the train or in the bath or

958
00:35:43,190 --> 00:35:41,680
whatever you can keep the digital copy

959
00:35:47,109 --> 00:35:43,200
and leave the hard copy at your local

960
00:35:52,950 --> 00:35:50,069
so that's volume number what was the mf

961
00:35:54,870 --> 00:35:52,960
volcano 42 number two 42. that's

962
00:35:57,510 --> 00:35:54,880
meaningful that's for june that's with

963
00:35:59,510 --> 00:35:57,520
you june 22. tim menden the editor of

964
00:36:02,120 --> 00:35:59,520
that fine journal the skeptic thank you

965
00:36:13,670 --> 00:36:02,130
thank you richard

966
00:36:18,310 --> 00:36:15,829
hi this is rob palmer i'm a guerrilla

967
00:36:21,430 --> 00:36:18,320
skepticism on wikipedia team member and

968
00:36:23,109 --> 00:36:21,440
a columnist for the skeptical inquirer i

969
00:36:25,270 --> 00:36:23,119
also do a fair amount of public speaking

970
00:36:26,950 --> 00:36:25,280
on topics of interest to skeptics

971
00:36:28,870 --> 00:36:26,960
this is an invitation for you to attend

972
00:36:30,470 --> 00:36:28,880
my upcoming zoom talk

973
00:36:31,670 --> 00:36:30,480
let me list some of the important topics

974
00:36:33,510 --> 00:36:31,680
i'll cover

975
00:36:36,069 --> 00:36:33,520
ghosts haunt houses and are routinely

976
00:36:37,910 --> 00:36:36,079
recorded in photos and on audio

977
00:36:40,230 --> 00:36:37,920
consciousness can leave a body and do

978
00:36:43,030 --> 00:36:40,240
things like remote viewing in fact the

979
00:36:44,950 --> 00:36:43,040
soul's been weighed it's 21 grams

980
00:36:47,109 --> 00:36:44,960
people have near-death experiences and

981
00:36:49,349 --> 00:36:47,119
glimpse the other side

982
00:36:51,510 --> 00:36:49,359
there is also proof of reincarnation

983
00:36:53,190 --> 00:36:51,520
demonic possession is a thing and of

984
00:36:56,230 --> 00:36:53,200
course mediums can communicate with the

985
00:36:57,990 --> 00:36:56,240
dead we see that all the time on tv

986
00:37:00,150 --> 00:36:58,000
paranormal and supernatural claims like

987
00:37:01,589 --> 00:37:00,160
these are commonly believed but

988
00:37:03,430 --> 00:37:01,599
extraordinary claims require

989
00:37:06,310 --> 00:37:03,440
extraordinary evidence

990
00:37:08,950 --> 00:37:06,320
so just how good is the evidence for any

991
00:37:10,870 --> 00:37:08,960
of these things join me as i am

992
00:37:13,589 --> 00:37:10,880
interviewed about all of this at the

993
00:37:15,430 --> 00:37:13,599
next rfrx meeting

994
00:37:18,230 --> 00:37:15,440
that's a weekly presentation series held

995
00:37:20,150 --> 00:37:18,240
over zoom by recovering from religion a

996
00:37:22,630 --> 00:37:20,160
non-profit which helps people struggling

997
00:37:24,630 --> 00:37:22,640
with issues surrounding religious doubt

998
00:37:25,910 --> 00:37:24,640
the zoom session begins at 8 pm eastern

999
00:37:27,670 --> 00:37:25,920
time in the u.s

1000
00:37:29,349 --> 00:37:27,680
on monday june 20th

1001
00:37:32,230 --> 00:37:29,359
that's 10 am

1002
00:37:35,030 --> 00:37:32,240
on tuesday the 21st in sydney the

1003
00:37:37,750 --> 00:37:35,040
session will go live at that time at

1004
00:37:40,950 --> 00:37:37,760
this link tinyurl.com

1005
00:37:43,510 --> 00:37:40,960
forward slash weekly rfrx

1006
00:37:45,510 --> 00:37:43,520
no registration is required if you can't

1007
00:37:47,430 --> 00:37:45,520
catch it live a recording will

1008
00:37:50,550 --> 00:37:47,440
eventually be uploaded to the rfr

1009
00:37:54,710 --> 00:37:50,560
youtube channel at tinyurl.com

1010
00:37:57,589 --> 00:37:54,720
forward slash rfrx playlist as well as

1011
00:37:59,510 --> 00:37:57,599
to the rfr audio podcast series

1012
00:38:01,910 --> 00:37:59,520
funny but i have a premonition that some

1013
00:38:04,660 --> 00:38:01,920
of you listening to this will join me

1014
00:38:21,910 --> 00:38:04,670
don't prove me wrong

1015
00:38:26,069 --> 00:38:24,069
now it's time once again to dive into

1016
00:38:27,589 --> 00:38:26,079
those archives those digital archives

1017
00:38:29,069 --> 00:38:27,599
from around the world normally it's a

1018
00:38:31,109 --> 00:38:29,079
trove at

1019
00:38:32,870 --> 00:38:31,119
trove.nla.gov.u but today i thought we'd

1020
00:38:34,550 --> 00:38:32,880
go once more

1021
00:38:36,710 --> 00:38:34,560
once more back to the united states of

1022
00:38:38,310 --> 00:38:36,720
america

1023
00:38:41,670 --> 00:38:38,320
quite apt i guess

1024
00:38:42,870 --> 00:38:41,680
and we're going to be looking for

1025
00:38:44,470 --> 00:38:42,880
reports

1026
00:38:47,670 --> 00:38:44,480
over the years

1027
00:38:49,750 --> 00:38:47,680
and believe me there are many

1028
00:38:50,790 --> 00:38:49,760
but i've selected a few

1029
00:38:52,870 --> 00:38:50,800
of

1030
00:38:55,430 --> 00:38:52,880
people being conned

1031
00:38:56,820 --> 00:38:55,440
scammed built

1032
00:39:01,270 --> 00:38:56,830
by psychics

1033
00:39:05,910 --> 00:39:03,030
now of course when i say psychics just

1034
00:39:07,109 --> 00:39:05,920
pretend that you can see air quotes

1035
00:39:09,510 --> 00:39:07,119
because

1036
00:39:12,150 --> 00:39:09,520
as far as we know

1037
00:39:14,950 --> 00:39:12,160
there's no such thing as a psychic

1038
00:39:16,950 --> 00:39:14,960
there are people claiming to be psychic

1039
00:39:19,829 --> 00:39:16,960
so if i ever say the word psychic that's

1040
00:39:22,069 --> 00:39:19,839
what i mean people who

1041
00:39:22,950 --> 00:39:22,079
claim to have psychic powers whether

1042
00:39:26,829 --> 00:39:22,960
they

1043
00:39:29,910 --> 00:39:26,839
psychic powers or whether

1044
00:39:31,750 --> 00:39:29,920
they surely know they do not

1045
00:39:33,270 --> 00:39:31,760
the generic term for these people is

1046
00:39:35,750 --> 00:39:33,280
simply psychic

1047
00:39:37,430 --> 00:39:35,760
and it's easier to say that than alleged

1048
00:39:40,750 --> 00:39:37,440
or claimed or

1049
00:39:45,349 --> 00:39:43,109
[Music]

1050
00:39:47,829 --> 00:39:45,359
and our first return today comes from

1051
00:39:49,430 --> 00:39:47,839
arlington heights daily herald suburban

1052
00:39:54,470 --> 00:39:49,440
chicago

1053
00:39:57,349 --> 00:39:54,480
dated the 14th of december 2013

1054
00:40:00,069 --> 00:39:57,359
with the heading police

1055
00:40:01,589 --> 00:40:00,079
psychic charged nearly one million

1056
00:40:03,270 --> 00:40:01,599
dollars for

1057
00:40:05,349 --> 00:40:03,280
curse removal

1058
00:40:06,710 --> 00:40:05,359
associated press

1059
00:40:09,910 --> 00:40:06,720
los angeles

1060
00:40:12,950 --> 00:40:09,920
brian james was having a tough time his

1061
00:40:14,309 --> 00:40:12,960
finances weren't in order his emotional

1062
00:40:17,190 --> 00:40:14,319
health wasn't great

1063
00:40:19,349 --> 00:40:17,200
and his love life needed a boost

1064
00:40:20,230 --> 00:40:19,359
that's when the 25 year old los angeles

1065
00:40:20,950 --> 00:40:20,240
man

1066
00:40:22,870 --> 00:40:20,960
met

1067
00:40:25,349 --> 00:40:22,880
michelle morgan

1068
00:40:27,109 --> 00:40:25,359
who worked in the san fernando valley at

1069
00:40:30,550 --> 00:40:27,119
an office with a

1070
00:40:32,710 --> 00:40:30,560
neon sign out front proclaiming

1071
00:40:35,270 --> 00:40:32,720
psychic readings

1072
00:40:36,630 --> 00:40:35,280
all he had to do to solve his problems

1073
00:40:39,190 --> 00:40:36,640
was to get a

1074
00:40:41,589 --> 00:40:39,200
pesky cursed removed

1075
00:40:43,589 --> 00:40:41,599
but it would cost him plenty according

1076
00:40:46,630 --> 00:40:43,599
to a private investigator who james

1077
00:40:49,589 --> 00:40:46,640
hired to look into the psychic

1078
00:40:50,950 --> 00:40:49,599
two years later authorities say james is

1079
00:40:53,990 --> 00:40:50,960
out nearly

1080
00:40:57,270 --> 00:40:54,000
one million dollars and morgan whose

1081
00:40:59,270 --> 00:40:57,280
real name is april lee and her husband

1082
00:41:01,670 --> 00:40:59,280
michael johnson

1083
00:41:04,710 --> 00:41:01,680
are free on bail after they were charged

1084
00:41:07,349 --> 00:41:04,720
with grand theft attempted grand theft

1085
00:41:10,630 --> 00:41:07,359
and extortion they are due in court on

1086
00:41:13,510 --> 00:41:10,640
december 19 for a pre-trial hearing

1087
00:41:16,150 --> 00:41:13,520
they were arrested in november when lee

1088
00:41:19,430 --> 00:41:16,160
and james traveled to san jose to

1089
00:41:22,230 --> 00:41:19,440
collect a final payment of 500

1090
00:41:25,030 --> 00:41:22,240
thousand dollars his mother was supposed

1091
00:41:28,870 --> 00:41:25,040
to give them after selling her house

1092
00:41:32,630 --> 00:41:28,880
instead authorities said the psychic was

1093
00:41:35,589 --> 00:41:32,640
surprised to find police waiting for her

1094
00:41:38,069 --> 00:41:35,599
lee's attorney james e silvestine

1095
00:41:40,150 --> 00:41:38,079
declined to discuss the allegations in

1096
00:41:42,230 --> 00:41:40,160
detail friday but said his client

1097
00:41:44,710 --> 00:41:42,240
maintains her innocence

1098
00:41:47,670 --> 00:41:44,720
it's not a crime to be a psychic

1099
00:41:50,230 --> 00:41:47,680
sylvestein said prosecutors say whatever

1100
00:41:51,589 --> 00:41:50,240
the job or title it's a crime to steal

1101
00:41:53,829 --> 00:41:51,599
someone's money

1102
00:41:56,790 --> 00:41:53,839
you have to get away from thinking of it

1103
00:41:57,829 --> 00:41:56,800
as proving or disproving spirits and

1104
00:41:59,910 --> 00:41:57,839
curses

1105
00:42:02,790 --> 00:41:59,920
and look for the fraud santa clara

1106
00:42:05,510 --> 00:42:02,800
county deputy district attorney sherry

1107
00:42:07,829 --> 00:42:05,520
bollard told the los angeles daily news

1108
00:42:10,870 --> 00:42:07,839
which first reported the story

1109
00:42:13,349 --> 00:42:10,880
james was having emotional financial and

1110
00:42:16,390 --> 00:42:13,359
relationship issues said new york

1111
00:42:18,550 --> 00:42:16,400
private investigator bob nygard

1112
00:42:22,150 --> 00:42:18,560
who ultimately helped him build a case

1113
00:42:23,990 --> 00:42:22,160
against lee 28 and her 32 year old

1114
00:42:26,630 --> 00:42:24,000
husband so it's basically made him the

1115
00:42:27,589 --> 00:42:26,640
perfect mark he told the associated

1116
00:42:29,750 --> 00:42:27,599
press

1117
00:42:32,390 --> 00:42:29,760
sorry bob for that bad impersonation of

1118
00:42:33,430 --> 00:42:32,400
you bob nygard is a terrific bloke i met

1119
00:42:34,390 --> 00:42:33,440
him

1120
00:42:35,750 --> 00:42:34,400
in

1121
00:42:37,750 --> 00:42:35,760
at dragoncon

1122
00:42:40,710 --> 00:42:37,760
once or twice over the years

1123
00:42:42,069 --> 00:42:40,720
wow what a character what a character

1124
00:42:45,109 --> 00:42:42,079
we read on

1125
00:42:47,910 --> 00:42:45,119
he said there was a specific person

1126
00:42:49,910 --> 00:42:47,920
james had a romantic interest in

1127
00:42:52,710 --> 00:42:49,920
but the psychic told him he couldn't

1128
00:42:56,630 --> 00:42:52,720
approach her until the curse was lifted

1129
00:43:00,230 --> 00:42:56,640
because if he were to do so her alleged

1130
00:43:02,950 --> 00:43:00,240
curse removal work would fail and my

1131
00:43:04,550 --> 00:43:02,960
client's romantic interest would die

1132
00:43:07,670 --> 00:43:04,560
nygaard said

1133
00:43:10,470 --> 00:43:07,680
instead he said lee claimed she would

1134
00:43:13,190 --> 00:43:10,480
become a go-between for the couple and

1135
00:43:16,230 --> 00:43:13,200
sent james text messages from her cell

1136
00:43:17,670 --> 00:43:16,240
phone that she claimed to have forwarded

1137
00:43:19,829 --> 00:43:17,680
from the woman

1138
00:43:22,550 --> 00:43:19,839
one said the woman couldn't wait to get

1139
00:43:24,309 --> 00:43:22,560
together with him once that curse was

1140
00:43:27,030 --> 00:43:24,319
broken

1141
00:43:29,670 --> 00:43:27,040
james kept forking over money much of it

1142
00:43:32,550 --> 00:43:29,680
from his mother's retirement savings my

1143
00:43:34,150 --> 00:43:32,560
god said until he finally became

1144
00:43:36,950 --> 00:43:34,160
suspicious and approached the woman

1145
00:43:39,030 --> 00:43:36,960
directly when he learned she'd never

1146
00:43:40,550 --> 00:43:39,040
sent him any messages

1147
00:43:42,550 --> 00:43:40,560
he went to the police

1148
00:43:44,710 --> 00:43:42,560
there he was mocked by an officer who

1149
00:43:47,750 --> 00:43:44,720
told him what a sucker he had been for

1150
00:43:49,270 --> 00:43:47,760
giving money to a psychic nygard said

1151
00:43:51,829 --> 00:43:49,280
that's when he sought out the private

1152
00:43:53,589 --> 00:43:51,839
investigator a retired policeman who has

1153
00:43:55,990 --> 00:43:53,599
recovered tens of thousands of dollars

1154
00:43:58,710 --> 00:43:56,000
for victims of other psychics

1155
00:44:00,870 --> 00:43:58,720
and that makes a very good point there

1156
00:44:02,309 --> 00:44:00,880
uh i i we look we don't know what really

1157
00:44:05,030 --> 00:44:02,319
happened when he went to the police

1158
00:44:07,109 --> 00:44:05,040
whether there was a true mocking tone

1159
00:44:10,069 --> 00:44:07,119
which there could have been there could

1160
00:44:11,270 --> 00:44:10,079
have been but ultimately we remember not

1161
00:44:13,030 --> 00:44:11,280
trying not to

1162
00:44:14,870 --> 00:44:13,040
blame the victim

1163
00:44:16,470 --> 00:44:14,880
and people will go to psychics for all

1164
00:44:17,829 --> 00:44:16,480
sorts of reasons

1165
00:44:20,470 --> 00:44:17,839
and our next

1166
00:44:25,230 --> 00:44:20,480
item comes from the fairfield ledger

1167
00:44:29,270 --> 00:44:25,240
fairfield iowa dated wednesday july 21st

1168
00:44:32,069 --> 00:44:29,280
1982 quite a while back

1169
00:44:35,190 --> 00:44:32,079
following psychics advice costs eldora

1170
00:44:39,510 --> 00:44:35,200
farmer 7 500

1171
00:44:41,910 --> 00:44:39,520
is it unlawful to charge an iowa farmer

1172
00:44:45,349 --> 00:44:41,920
thousands of dollars to tell him he can

1173
00:44:48,870 --> 00:44:45,359
regain the affections of his girlfriend

1174
00:44:51,829 --> 00:44:48,880
by washing himself with a tomato

1175
00:44:55,510 --> 00:44:51,839
sleeping with a shoe under his pillow

1176
00:44:57,829 --> 00:44:55,520
and doing unusual things with eggs pins

1177
00:45:00,550 --> 00:44:57,839
and wooden matches

1178
00:45:04,870 --> 00:45:00,560
police say a psychic instructed an

1179
00:45:06,069 --> 00:45:04,880
eldora farmer in those acts and more

1180
00:45:09,190 --> 00:45:06,079
to quote

1181
00:45:12,069 --> 00:45:09,200
ready's body of evil spirits end quote

1182
00:45:15,589 --> 00:45:12,079
but they say the polk county attorney's

1183
00:45:18,470 --> 00:45:15,599
office has ruled that no charges can be

1184
00:45:22,710 --> 00:45:18,480
filed against the psychic because they

1185
00:45:24,550 --> 00:45:22,720
have yet to prove she violated any local

1186
00:45:27,510 --> 00:45:24,560
or state laws

1187
00:45:30,470 --> 00:45:27,520
investigators said the farmer who is in

1188
00:45:31,430 --> 00:45:30,480
his mid-20s did everything from sell

1189
00:45:33,990 --> 00:45:31,440
corn

1190
00:45:36,630 --> 00:45:34,000
to cash an insurance policy to pay the

1191
00:45:39,109 --> 00:45:36,640
psychic spending as much as seven

1192
00:45:40,870 --> 00:45:39,119
thousand five hundred dollars since last

1193
00:45:42,950 --> 00:45:40,880
september

1194
00:45:46,150 --> 00:45:42,960
detective ron warne

1195
00:45:47,589 --> 00:45:46,160
who said he was not finished with his

1196
00:45:50,309 --> 00:45:47,599
investigation

1197
00:45:52,790 --> 00:45:50,319
said he would file charges if possible

1198
00:45:55,670 --> 00:45:52,800
but until then he said he would not

1199
00:45:57,829 --> 00:45:55,680
release the names of the psychic or the

1200
00:45:59,589 --> 00:45:57,839
farmer the farmer said he contacted the

1201
00:46:01,349 --> 00:45:59,599
psychic through a small newspaper

1202
00:46:03,750 --> 00:46:01,359
advertisement

1203
00:46:04,870 --> 00:46:03,760
i was just curious at first he told

1204
00:46:07,990 --> 00:46:04,880
police

1205
00:46:09,030 --> 00:46:08,000
the first time she just wanted 45 or

1206
00:46:11,030 --> 00:46:09,040
something

1207
00:46:13,510 --> 00:46:11,040
but after the first meeting the farmer

1208
00:46:14,870 --> 00:46:13,520
said the psychic requested he buy her a

1209
00:46:18,309 --> 00:46:14,880
gold necklace

1210
00:46:21,030 --> 00:46:18,319
and about 100 worth of groceries she

1211
00:46:22,870 --> 00:46:21,040
told me my body was full of evil

1212
00:46:25,349 --> 00:46:22,880
the man told police

1213
00:46:27,829 --> 00:46:25,359
she was going to rid me of it

1214
00:46:31,270 --> 00:46:27,839
the psychic reportedly directed the man

1215
00:46:33,670 --> 00:46:31,280
to wrap a tomato in a handkerchief

1216
00:46:35,750 --> 00:46:33,680
and rub it over his head and body

1217
00:46:39,270 --> 00:46:35,760
he was then to stuff the tomato in a

1218
00:46:42,470 --> 00:46:39,280
shoe and put it under his pillow finally

1219
00:46:44,550 --> 00:46:42,480
he brought the tomato and one thousand

1220
00:46:46,550 --> 00:46:44,560
five hundred dollars in cash to the

1221
00:46:50,230 --> 00:46:46,560
psychic police said

1222
00:46:53,030 --> 00:46:50,240
the psychic is said to have quote

1223
00:46:55,990 --> 00:46:53,040
dug around inside the tomato

1224
00:46:57,030 --> 00:46:56,000
until she finally dug out a small

1225
00:46:58,550 --> 00:46:57,040
replica

1226
00:47:02,470 --> 00:46:58,560
of a devil's head

1227
00:47:05,270 --> 00:47:02,480
part of the evil in the young man's body

1228
00:47:06,390 --> 00:47:05,280
had been removed the psychic reportedly

1229
00:47:08,710 --> 00:47:06,400
claimed

1230
00:47:11,349 --> 00:47:08,720
but there still was some left

1231
00:47:14,309 --> 00:47:11,359
on another occasion the man was to push

1232
00:47:16,710 --> 00:47:14,319
seven needles into seven matchsticks and

1233
00:47:18,870 --> 00:47:16,720
bury them in a certain location the

1234
00:47:20,950 --> 00:47:18,880
needles were supposed to get rid of

1235
00:47:22,790 --> 00:47:20,960
seven evil spirits

1236
00:47:25,109 --> 00:47:22,800
police said the man

1237
00:47:26,870 --> 00:47:25,119
was also told to do something with a

1238
00:47:29,670 --> 00:47:26,880
fresh egg and bring it back to the

1239
00:47:31,510 --> 00:47:29,680
psychic with two thousand dollars

1240
00:47:33,910 --> 00:47:31,520
the farmer followed the instructions

1241
00:47:36,710 --> 00:47:33,920
police said and when he gave the egg to

1242
00:47:38,870 --> 00:47:36,720
the psychic she prayed over a bucket of

1243
00:47:40,630 --> 00:47:38,880
water and blood

1244
00:47:43,589 --> 00:47:40,640
and quote

1245
00:47:44,470 --> 00:47:43,599
turn the money over to the spirits end

1246
00:47:46,950 --> 00:47:44,480
quote

1247
00:47:49,589 --> 00:47:46,960
by the end of june after doling out more

1248
00:47:51,349 --> 00:47:49,599
payments and even buying toys for the

1249
00:47:53,190 --> 00:47:51,359
psychic's children

1250
00:47:56,549 --> 00:47:53,200
officers said the man apparently

1251
00:47:59,109 --> 00:47:56,559
realized the psychic was not helping

1252
00:48:00,309 --> 00:47:59,119
the letters he was writing to his former

1253
00:48:01,670 --> 00:48:00,319
girlfriend

1254
00:48:03,829 --> 00:48:01,680
was still

1255
00:48:06,470 --> 00:48:03,839
unanswered

1256
00:48:09,829 --> 00:48:06,480
oh that is a bit of a sad story

1257
00:48:12,150 --> 00:48:09,839
all the way back there in 1982

1258
00:48:16,150 --> 00:48:12,160
and now we come to the panama city news

1259
00:48:17,910 --> 00:48:16,160
herald dated the 1st of august 1997.

1260
00:48:21,349 --> 00:48:17,920
spiritual scam

1261
00:48:25,190 --> 00:48:21,359
police say psychic milked elderly widow

1262
00:48:26,950 --> 00:48:25,200
out of three hundred thousand dollars

1263
00:48:28,230 --> 00:48:26,960
the associated press

1264
00:48:31,710 --> 00:48:28,240
deland

1265
00:48:35,030 --> 00:48:31,720
psychic kitty wilson convinced

1266
00:48:38,069 --> 00:48:35,040
81 year old mary porter

1267
00:48:41,030 --> 00:48:38,079
that there was a 200 year old curse on

1268
00:48:43,829 --> 00:48:41,040
her family and house the only way to

1269
00:48:46,710 --> 00:48:43,839
lift the curse the psychic told the

1270
00:48:49,349 --> 00:48:46,720
elderly widow was to give her three

1271
00:48:52,470 --> 00:48:49,359
hundred thousand dollars police said

1272
00:48:53,910 --> 00:48:52,480
now mrs wilson who faces federal charges

1273
00:48:56,390 --> 00:48:53,920
can't be found

1274
00:48:58,790 --> 00:48:56,400
she still may be in the area volusia

1275
00:49:01,589 --> 00:48:58,800
county sheriff's spokesman gary davison

1276
00:49:04,069 --> 00:49:01,599
said thursday two warrants for her

1277
00:49:07,510 --> 00:49:04,079
arrest were issued wednesday she faces

1278
00:49:10,150 --> 00:49:07,520
felony charges of scheming to defraud in

1279
00:49:12,950 --> 00:49:10,160
excess of one hundred thousand dollars

1280
00:49:14,710 --> 00:49:12,960
and exploiting the elderly in excess of

1281
00:49:17,670 --> 00:49:14,720
one hundred thousand dollars

1282
00:49:20,950 --> 00:49:17,680
circuit judge ed sanders

1283
00:49:23,750 --> 00:49:20,960
set bail at 1.5 million

1284
00:49:26,309 --> 00:49:23,760
mrs porter began visiting ms wilson's

1285
00:49:28,230 --> 00:49:26,319
business in may seeking guidance after

1286
00:49:30,230 --> 00:49:28,240
her husband's death she told

1287
00:49:32,470 --> 00:49:30,240
investigators that she was deeply

1288
00:49:34,790 --> 00:49:32,480
depressed at the time

1289
00:49:37,030 --> 00:49:34,800
the psychic convinced the elderly woman

1290
00:49:40,150 --> 00:49:37,040
that her family was suffering from a 200

1291
00:49:42,150 --> 00:49:40,160
year old curse that caused misery health

1292
00:49:45,430 --> 00:49:42,160
problems and bad luck

1293
00:49:49,430 --> 00:49:45,440
ms wilson told mrs porter that

1294
00:49:52,549 --> 00:49:49,440
at a cost of 12 000 per person

1295
00:49:55,910 --> 00:49:52,559
she could pay penance to release the

1296
00:49:58,470 --> 00:49:55,920
suffering spirits of 24 friends and

1297
00:50:01,750 --> 00:49:58,480
relatives who had perished in a

1298
00:50:04,470 --> 00:50:01,760
shipwreck in europe that money would be

1299
00:50:07,270 --> 00:50:04,480
dumped in devil's triangle she told the

1300
00:50:11,109 --> 00:50:07,280
widow mrs porter was told that another

1301
00:50:12,390 --> 00:50:11,119
45 000 was needed to lift a curse from

1302
00:50:15,670 --> 00:50:12,400
her home

1303
00:50:18,230 --> 00:50:15,680
and some inherited funds she withdrew

1304
00:50:21,109 --> 00:50:18,240
large amounts of money over a two-month

1305
00:50:21,990 --> 00:50:21,119
period from banks in deland daytona

1306
00:50:27,109 --> 00:50:22,000
beach

1307
00:50:30,870 --> 00:50:27,119
case ms wilson

1308
00:50:33,510 --> 00:50:30,880
posed as mrs porter's daughter telling

1309
00:50:36,549 --> 00:50:33,520
bankers that they planned to open an

1310
00:50:39,750 --> 00:50:36,559
italian restaurant ms wilson even bought

1311
00:50:43,270 --> 00:50:39,760
a plate of spaghetti to an orlando bank

1312
00:50:46,069 --> 00:50:43,280
to bolster her story police said

1313
00:50:48,470 --> 00:50:46,079
investigators said ms wilson exploited

1314
00:50:50,230 --> 00:50:48,480
mrs porter's deep religious belief

1315
00:50:52,790 --> 00:50:50,240
gaining her confidence by telling her

1316
00:50:54,309 --> 00:50:52,800
she knew mother teresa and had a close

1317
00:50:55,349 --> 00:50:54,319
acquaintance who was a priest in the

1318
00:50:57,510 --> 00:50:55,359
vatican

1319
00:51:01,109 --> 00:50:57,520
miss wilson ran her psychic business at

1320
00:51:03,670 --> 00:51:01,119
two deland era locations with several

1321
00:51:05,910 --> 00:51:03,680
family members investigators said they

1322
00:51:06,950 --> 00:51:05,920
hadn't decided if others would be

1323
00:51:08,950 --> 00:51:06,960
charged

1324
00:51:10,870 --> 00:51:08,960
sergeant wayne barr said there may be

1325
00:51:12,630 --> 00:51:10,880
other victims who are too ashamed to

1326
00:51:14,790 --> 00:51:12,640
admit they were scammed

1327
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:14,800
i would say there are many other victims

1328
00:51:16,630 --> 00:51:15,450
out there

1329
00:51:17,990 --> 00:51:16,640
[Music]

1330
00:51:20,710 --> 00:51:18,000
said

1331
00:51:24,420 --> 00:51:20,720
we definitely want this lady in jail so

1332
00:51:27,589 --> 00:51:24,430
she can't victimize other people

1333
00:51:29,190 --> 00:51:27,599
[Music]

1334
00:51:32,069 --> 00:51:29,200
and there we go

1335
00:51:33,589 --> 00:51:32,079
just some of the uh interesting stories

1336
00:51:37,430 --> 00:51:33,599
over the years

1337
00:51:38,630 --> 00:51:37,440
people being built scam conned

1338
00:51:41,430 --> 00:51:38,640
whatever

1339
00:51:44,150 --> 00:51:41,440
word you want to use out of funds

1340
00:51:45,780 --> 00:51:44,160
by people pretending to have mystical

1341
00:51:49,030 --> 00:51:45,790
psychic powers

1342
00:51:50,790 --> 00:51:49,040
[Music]

1343
00:51:53,430 --> 00:51:50,800
but you don't need to pretend to have

1344
00:51:54,950 --> 00:51:53,440
mystical psychic powers to enjoy

1345
00:51:56,150 --> 00:51:54,960
researching

1346
00:51:58,950 --> 00:51:56,160
articles

1347
00:52:01,270 --> 00:51:58,960
information stories from the past and

1348
00:52:02,950 --> 00:52:01,280
you can do that by visiting any

1349
00:52:04,950 --> 00:52:02,960
any local

1350
00:52:06,790 --> 00:52:04,960
archive in your country or if you're in

1351
00:52:08,390 --> 00:52:06,800
australia or anywhere around the world

1352
00:52:11,589 --> 00:52:08,400
of course you can visit trove at

1353
00:52:14,870 --> 00:52:13,589
but no matter where you search

1354
00:52:19,660 --> 00:52:14,880
you never know

1355
00:52:37,109 --> 00:52:35,589
[Music]

1356
00:52:39,030 --> 00:52:37,119
thank you for listening to the skeptic's

1357
00:52:40,710 --> 00:52:39,040
own podcast and a big thank you to brian

1358
00:52:41,829 --> 00:52:40,720
dunning and family for putting up with

1359
00:52:47,910 --> 00:52:41,839
me

1360
00:52:50,069 --> 00:52:47,920
haven't been to the states in uh

1361
00:52:52,230 --> 00:52:50,079
well two and a half years

1362
00:52:54,069 --> 00:52:52,240
and jet lag normally knocks me around

1363
00:52:55,589 --> 00:52:54,079
but this time it's like a double

1364
00:52:56,470 --> 00:52:55,599
sledgehammer i don't know what's going

1365
00:53:00,630 --> 00:52:56,480
on

1366
00:53:02,549 --> 00:53:00,640
of a mystery i haven't haven't had much

1367
00:53:05,270 --> 00:53:02,559
time to think about it i know

1368
00:53:07,430 --> 00:53:05,280
i have a section in trove called oddball

1369
00:53:09,829 --> 00:53:07,440
so very strange stories coming up in the

1370
00:53:13,670 --> 00:53:09,839
trove section next week and the book of

1371
00:53:16,069 --> 00:53:13,680
tim next week looks at usha

1372
00:53:17,109 --> 00:53:16,079
but for this week from the land of big

1373
00:53:18,309 --> 00:53:17,119
feet

1374
00:53:20,790 --> 00:53:18,319
bigfoots

1375
00:53:23,750 --> 00:53:20,800
and snow-capped mountains this is

1376
00:53:29,430 --> 00:53:23,760
richard saunders signing off from bend

1377
00:53:32,710 --> 00:53:31,270
you've been listening to the skeptic

1378
00:53:34,069 --> 00:53:32,720
zone podcast

1379
00:53:37,270 --> 00:53:34,079
please visit our website at

1380
00:53:42,870 --> 00:53:40,390
for show notes contacts and to access

1381
00:53:45,109 --> 00:53:42,880
the back catalog of episodes going back

1382
00:53:47,030 --> 00:53:45,119
to 2008

1383
00:53:49,829 --> 00:53:47,040
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1384
00:53:51,990 --> 00:53:49,839
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1385
00:53:54,230 --> 00:53:52,000
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1386
00:53:56,309 --> 00:53:54,240
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1387
00:53:59,589 --> 00:53:56,319
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1388
00:54:02,870 --> 00:53:59,599
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1389
00:54:04,549 --> 00:54:02,880
podcast is an independent production the

1390
00:54:06,790 --> 00:54:04,559
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1391
00:54:09,349 --> 00:54:06,800
skeptic zone are not necessarily those